AND SOME IDIOT JUDGE GAVE IT TO THEM.
This family is not persecuted.
Getting fines for BREAKING THE LAW is fully normal and acceptable.
Getting other consequences FOR BREAKING THE LAW, as defined by the said law, which in this case means taking over the custody of the children, as the parents are, in fact, denying them their rights.
What they are trying to present as religious persecution is in fact being treated like everyone else in the country.
"In the last two decades the socialist governments in Europe are trying a different approach: While Christian worship on Sunday morning is kept legal, any practices for the rest of the week that are based on the convictions of Bible-believing Christians and the Biblical worldview are declared against the law. The laws in most European countries in essence are designed to extinguish any Christian practice while de jure allow Christian worship in designated places.
Prime examples of this, of course, are the laws in quite a few European countries against Christian homeschooling. Christian homeschooling, note that, because Muslim or any other form of homeschooling, or even unschooling is left alone. The situation with the legal persecution against Christian homeschooling families in Germany is all too well known to most American Christian families thanks to the decision of the Tennessee Judge Lawrence O. Burman to grant asylum to the Romeike family earlier this year for the violation of their rights to homeschool their children by the German government. Less known are the laws in other European countries like Sweden and France, where homeschooling is forbidden by law. In many places in Europe it is against the law to act as a Christian in your everyday life, and that includes also the economic and political life of the nation."
- Missionaries and the theology of resistance
That is not true. People are totally free to go to church at any day they so wish. Bible study groups and Christian communities have frequent meetings that are not disturbed or hindered in any way or manner. Churches have meeting rooms, day care, children's and teen's clubs and other activities during the week, and Germany has a full freedom of religion. Everyone is allowed to practice their religion as they wish AS LONG AS THEY FOLLOW THE LAW, which means that I can't see any problems with "living as a Christian". On the contrary.
It is very much easier to live a practical Christian life in Europe than any other sort of religious life.
The Jews, Muslims and Pagans are very much more persecuted and hindered to live their lives as their conscience demands, and in many cases even TRULY persecuted. Churches, Christian meeting spaces and cemeteries are very seldom if ever attacked and vandalized, whereas the Jewish, Moslem and Pagan such are constantly being disturbed. Especially the Jewish ones. It is so common, people don't even much react, just sigh and clean it up.
Germany has freedom of expression, press and right of assembly. There are laws against hate speech that are stricter than in USA, but I can't imagine any Christian publication being censored. Now, of course, if it is hate speech disguised as Christianity, that's a different issue, but I HOPE any Christian would consider hate speech very un-Christian, and would not protest the limitation of such. Christian publications are not censored, and the writers may freely express their disliking of such subjects like New Age or Islam or Atheism.
"“Because Germany banned individual liberty for everyone, it’s okay. . . . [So by extension] it’s okay to repress everyone’s freedom of religion, which is to say it would be okay to repress everyone’s freedom of speech, to repress everyone’s freedom of parents. All those things are implicated in the right to educate.”"They haven't banned individual liberty from anyone. There is no such thing as "freedom of parents" or "[parents'] fundamental right to decide how [they] want to teach [their] children". Naturally, parents have rights and responsibilities, but the state's responsibilities for the children outweigh the parent's rights. I know this is hard for some people to accept, practically impossible, but this is the reality and the way it is.
- Michael Farris, founding chairman of HSLDA
I do hope no-one has any objections to when this illusional "parent's right" is being surpassed because the parents let the children starve, abuse them, molest them - but to the state all the parents are equal. It doesn't matter if all your friends think you are a perfect parent, it doesn't matter if your Holy Book or God says you are doing right, the state MUST interfere if you are denying your child any of the "Children's Rights".
(Now... USA has not ratified the Convention of the Rights of Children... why is that? Could it possibly be because you believe the parents have more rights than the children, and children in fact BELONG to their parents? You're wrong, you know. And one day your children will know it, too...)
Now, home-schooling has been illegal in Germany since 1918. Any form of homeschooling. Muslims are not allowed to homeschool either, nor any other group of people. Homeschool is illegal. Period.
Christians are not singled out in some war against Christianity. I don't even know where the idea of that "it is against the law to act as a Christian in your everyday life" comes from. (Perhaps the reason is that the author is Hungarian, and as Hungary was Communist, Christianity WAS forbidden. I can only assume he is referring to that reality, which is the COMMUNIST reality, NOT EUROPEAN.)
No, these people are not persecuted. They are trying to demand "rights" that are against the law of the country they live in, and when this request is denied - naturally - IT IS AGAINST THE LAW - they start whining about being persecuted and requesting asylum!
THESE PEOPLE REFUSE TO FOLLOW THE LAW!
I don't understand which part of this is so difficult for the thousands of idiots, defending this family, to understand. I'm pretty sure most of them would scream against "illegal immigrants", who, of course, are all Mexican, or thereabout. Hello! THIS FAMILY IS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! They were requesting asylum for wrong reasons, and they were granted the asylum by wrong reasons, they are in USA ILLEGALLY.
The worst thing with this is that because some idiot (that would be HSLDA attorney Mike Donnelly) told them to request asylum, they probably are no longer welcome as ORDINARY IMMIGRANTS to USA.
They should have requested a visa and green card to move to USA. They should have immigrated to USA legally. All their thousands of homeschooling, Christian, USonian friends should have guaranteed them work and housing, so that the government would have had no problems what so ever to welcome this German family to USA, and then in couple of years, they could have applied for citizenship.
But NOW they are criminals. Violating BOTH the German law AND the USonian law.
Homeschooling is not illegal in USA, but immigrating under false premises is.
That the US law is different from German law is totally irrelevant. This family is German and subjects to the German law, not the US law, even though they at the moment reside in USA. (Illegally, I might add.)
That a person can get an adequate education at home, and these parents were not denying their children education, is 100% irrelevant. Homeschooling is still illegal in Germany.
Homeschooling is NOT a human right, education is, and Germany gives an adequate education to all German children in public schools.
I think I should add that there are Christian public schools in Germany too, if the regular curriculum doesn't agree with your preferences and values.
Also, nothing stops you from providing ADDITIONAL education at home to your children.
Nothing stops you from requesting special license to skip the sexual education (which is really only a couple of hours, if even that, of the whole 10 years of public school.). I haven't heard that anyone had had any problems with this.
Nothing stops you from reviewing the material, and going through it with your children and explaining to them how it differs from what you believe, and teach your children those things as you believe them.
You can request that your children are not to read certain books; that they are allowed to choose something else they read.
You do have quite a lot of control about how and what your child is being taught, even when you don't homeschool.
So, no, this German family - or others like this one - has no case. They are just being obstinate, for no good reason.
Especially remembering what the Bible says about this issue...
Romans 13:1-5
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. "
Titus 3:1
"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work"It doesn't matter what their personal preferences are. It doesn't matter if the law somewhere else is different. It doesn't matter they would like it to be differently. Homeschooling is illegal in Germany, that is the law, and it is to be respected.
1 Peter 2:13-17
"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king."
"The German Supreme Court has ruled that it wants to 'counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies,' Farris explained. 'And that's a direct quote.'"
Yes? Of course you find it horrible, because you are thinking that they are targeting Christians. What they are targeting is actually groups like Nazis and Nation of Islam. "Parallel society" is underground movement, terrorists, saboteurs, revolutionaries, people who refuse to follow the law of the country. Does that sound like Christians to you?
What was it the Bible said about respecting the laws of the people one lives among?
Are you really trying to tell me you SUPPORT insubordination? And not only SUPPORT, YOU ENCOURAGE IT!
If Germany was demanding the Christians to denounce Jesus and worship Asir or bring sacrifice to the World Tree, then I would understand why you would protest.
If Germany demanding abortion and forced the children to have sex in school, I would understand.
This I do not understand.
Another thing I noticed in several of these sites trying to talk for this family staying in USA is that this public education law was created by Nazi government so that children could be easier brainwashed.
This law of general and equal public education was signed 1918. Germany was not Nazi 1918. The National socialistic party didn't even exist at that time!
The thing, that is more important here, is that to refer to the Nazi Germany is "playing the Nazi card". It is bad argumentation, fallacious logic AND A PERSONAL ATTACK.
And what does the Bible say about that?
Nevertheless, it is 100% irrelevant why, when and by whom this law was signed, it is still the law and if you refuse to follow the law, you are a criminal.
Romans 1:29-30
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents"
Proverbs 6:16-19
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Read this too.
Why HSLDA is Wrong about Romeike v. Holder
"But the case goes far deeper than the right of asylum. Homeschooling is providing an increasingly viable alternative as the ranks of adults with college education increases, the quality of public schools drops or stagnates, and the refusal of government schools to offer any sort of values education. The number of homeschooled students has risen from 1.5 million in 2007 to over 2 million in 2012 and is growing ever more rapidly"
- Dick Morris
Irrelevant.
It doesn't matter at all, that less than 2% of USonian children are being homeschooled, and the USonian public schools are not very good. It has nothing to do with the education in Germany, nor the FACT THAT HOMESCHOOLING IS ILLEGAL IN GERMANY.
You decide about the laws IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, and let the other countries decide over their business.
Considering that Germany has better schools than USA, and more effective education. USA really has very little to say about how we deal with education here in Europe. Perhaps to countries like Greece or Slovenia, but we North Europeans are a lot better than you are in this.
(And, yes, one reason for that is an equal and general education. I bet your homeschooled kids do well in Bible knowledge, but if they know as much as the adults do, I have to say that it's not much. I, a Pagan, know the Bible better than any of the Christians I have discussed.)
US 17th In Global Education Ranking; Finland, South Korea Claim Top Spots
And isn't there some idiot blaming Obama and feminism for this!
"Education is at the bottom in Obama's Matriarchal America. The usa spends lots of money on vocational training. Also many americans view education simply as a means to a "better job". There is little interest in engaging education to help further humanity or to cultivate critical thinking and analysis. in addition, many people are bragging about the 'female boom' in college attendance and graduation. Though at the expense of males who are deliberately being passed over by university admissions offices. I find it ironic that with the increase of female college graduates. The standards continue to fall and the usa's ranking plummets as well. So interesting. I wonder what kind of society these people believe will come from a population in which the females are 'educated', yet the males are not. Seems like the making of civil war and perhaps even a real gender war. Such interesting times we live in indeed."
THIS WAS VOTED AS "BEST" OF THE OTHER USERS!
